Not good news

Charlie and Cassie are separated.  I think it's over whether or not to have kids.

Oh so sorry..

oh no. from all your stories about them, they seemed like the perfect couple. maybe they'll get back together. you never know.

Oh no....so sorry to hear this.....((hugs)) to you....

So sorry, Norm, as from what you've told us, they do seem so right for one another. I'll say a prayer tonight that they're able to work things out. It's so difficult on family members who've grown so attached to their kids' partners or spouses when a split happens. A very cute picture of them, too...

So sorry.....hopefully they will be able to work through their problems.

I am sorry about that Norm. Jeez! Didn't they talk about having kids before they were married?

Yes they did. Charlie said he didn't think he wanted kids and she said OK thinking she could talk him into having them.

That seems to be a common mistake that females make: I can change him AFTER we are married. Does she want a child now? That could be why Charlie doesn't want any. He is young, doesn't own his own home, career issues? Maybe he wants to be firmly established before kids come into the picture. Children cost approximately $12,000/yr, and that is with no problems. Add braces, computers and whatever, it is expensive. Then there is college. Perhaps Charlie is being realistic about the situation and knows kids at this point would be a quick trip to bankruptcy court. They say from birth to age 18 it will cost around $250,000 to raise just one child without all of the extras. Tell him he has my sympathy. Not everyone wants children. I can't tell you how many women have told me on the sly that I was smart for not having kids. The biggest mistake made is for couples to have kids because they think that is what they are supposed to do, never taking into consideration finances or whether they actually want kids.

My son does not like kids and will never have any..Then again he is a 40year old kid..

Nothing wrong with that.

I think all those issues you mentioned are aspects of why Charlie doesn't want kids. He told her before they were married how he felt and told her that she should back out if she didn't agree.

Poor kids.

Bugster2 wrote:Not everyone wants children.

When I was younger, I planned to have kids.  When I got to be about 32, I told Brian if we were going to have them, we needed to start soon, as I didn't want to be having a child when I was 40.  We realized that we had fallen in love with our life as it was, and having a child would mean so many changes -- where we would live, how much disposable income we would have (public schools in N.O. are notoriously poor so parochial or private would be necessary and the good private schools are currently about $20-$25K a year beginning in first grade, or you have to move away from the city and commute an hour into the city each day, as the public schools are better than in N.O., where we have so much poverty and the schools are not properly funded, staffed, etc.), how we would live, being regular (or better than we were) church goers, and even mundane things like not eating dinner so late, not having a cocktail (or two) so early when we were at the pool on the weekend, etc.  We decided we were just so happy that we didn't want to screw it up -- nor screw up the life of a child or two.  And on the 29th of this month, we will celebrate 37 years together so we know we made the right decision for us.

Bugster2 wrote:I can't tell you how many women have told me on the sly that I was smart for not having kids. The biggest mistake made is for couples to have kids because they think that is what they are supposed to do, never taking into consideration finances or whether they actually want kids.

Same here and by both fathers AND mothers, always prefaced, and meant, I'm sure, by "Not that I don't adore our children...'  I agree that many, many people have kids because they think that is what they are supposed to do, with no thought given to what a SACRIFICE you have to make to have kids -- or the sacrifice you SHOULD make to have them.  

I remember years ago Ann Landers asked something akin to "Knowing what you know now, would you choose to have children?"  The "Nos" were a huge number, something in the 60 or 70 percentages.  I just Googled this to make sure my numbers were correct and this is the quote I found online:

"It sounded like a simple survey – easy to understand, easy to execute and relatively inexpensive with the survey costs limited to the recording of the responses. There were many responses, at least 10,000, so that the statistical efficiency was excellent. Provided that all the statistical assumptions were correct, the survey with that sample size was accurate to within 1 percentage point 19 times out of 20, or so we will find out later on in this course. This was the Ann Landers’ survey of 1975-76 that examined the issue of whether or not parents, if they had their lives to live over again, would have children. To her surprise, 70% of the respondents said “No.”

I remember I found that amazing at the time but, of course, it obviously stuck with me.  To be brutally honest, if my husband would've said in the beginning of our relationship that he DID NOT want kids, I would not have continued my relationship with him.  How times change.  People often assume that we do not like kids but we love kids -- just didn't think we were ready for them when we were the proper age.  I always worried that Brian would regret our decision but not only has neither of us ever regretted it, we've rejoiced in our decision many times over the years.  And I am the first one to say that I know we missed out on PLENTY by not having children.  But I am often aghast at how little thought is put into it by so many couples; and let's face it, parents today aren't what they used to be.  Many are unwilling to even contemplate, much less put into practice, what a sacrifice it is to have them.  Putting kids first is what good parents do and it's shockingly absent so often today.

My mom was disappointed with our choice (she only told me once and never nagged us to change our minds, thank God!) and told me what a wonderful mother she thought I would be, which touched me no end.  Brian's parents, on the other hand, thought we were brilliant not to have any.  One funny thing is both Brian and I are one of three kids -- only one kid in each family had kids:  My brother, the middle child, had kids (2), and Brian's brother, the eldest in his family, had 3 kids. My sister and Brian's sister both opted like us not to have any.  Unusual, no?

Sorry to be so wordy on this subject but I've had to explain or often "defend" our choice many times over the years.  I assumed Charlie and Cassie had, of course, discussed kids prior to marriage but didn't want to ask you, Norm.  Cassie should've taken Charlie seriously though I feel true regret for both of them.  Women often feel as though they can change a man once they marry them -- I've seen it many times in my life with friends, family and acquaintances.  And even if they are able to do so, it always seem to be accompanied by regret down the line...

You know what used to anger me the most when asked if I had children and I would say no? These stupid, stupid women's first response would be "Don't you like children?" I would look at them with three eyes and tell them I couldn't afford them. What I really would have liked to tell them is this: You moron! I can't afford kids! I also come from a bad gene pool and believe in responsible breeding. I don't want to take a chance and pass on my mother's schizophrenia. I can't go through that again. I also don't want to clone myself and watch my child have to go through what I had to while growing up. I didn't have the answers then and I sure as hell don't now. And finally, it isn't that I don't like children, it is that they scare the hell out of me. Have you ever tried to talk to another woman when they have children? It is impossible. They are unable to talk about anything but children. I'll pass.

I've been asked many times, "What's the matter? Couldn't you have any?" I always responded that yes, there was no physical reason we didn't have kids but that the question they just asked would be terribly hurtful and tear-inducing to some females who'd struggled for years with fertility (or adoption) issues. I always suggested they not ask ANYONE that question, as it was terribly personal.

We love kids, we really do. They're often a joy to be around, listen to and talk to (my favorite age is 3, 3-1/2 when they get really chatty). And we have never expected them to be adults in little bodies and know they're kids, they get tired and often are not fun to be around. I admire good parents a lot, as it takes a ton more effort to be a good parent than to be a lousy one. And the great thing is that kids usually like us, too. Especially Brian. I find they always tend to like really tall people (he's 6'4") and he talks to them like he would talk to you and me. They giggle and usually stick to him like glue. It's always fun to see.

It used to be our friends' kids -- now it's their grandkids, many of whom they are raising them because their kids got into this problem or that problem (drugs, crime, alcohol, mental illness, etc.). We also know people who have no money saved for their old age 'cause they've spent it all on rehab or attorney's fees or both, yet their grown kids are still trying to suck them dry, or trying to get them to sell their house and move into an assisted living place -- so darn scared that they will be asked to help their parents in their old age. I do so admire some of our friends for stepping up to the plate when no one else does. The life of a child is so freaking important. I'm often glad I was never tested, as I truly don't know what type of parents we would've been. We know what we should have done to be parents but whether we would've put that into practice, we'll never know. It's very easy to say how a parent should act -- it's another one to actually raise a child and I can only imagine how difficult (and how terribly rewarding) it can be.

I do know that you need nerves of steel to be a parent.
Just heard some good news: my nephew got into medical school! All of his tuition is paid for and they give him $2200/mo to live on.

Bugster2 wrote:I do know that you need nerves of steel to be a parent.
Just heard some good news: my nephew got into medical school! All of his tuition is paid for and they give him $2200/mo to live on.

That's super, Bug! Seems those other refusals were a blessing after all, since he got a full scholarship and a stipend, too.

The military is picking up the tab.

They are not back together. They have both signed the divorce papers and the hearing is in a month or two. It isn't that Charlie does not want kids ever, he just feels he isn't ready yet.

NormM wrote:They are not back together.  They have both signed the divorce papers and the hearing is in a month or two.  It isn't that Charlie does not want kids ever, he just feels he isn't ready yet.  

That's so sad, Norm. May I be so nosy to ask how old Charlie and Cassie are?

Charlie is 35 and she is 26 or 27.

If they had their own home maybe things would be different. To have a child while they are still living with you (unless you said it was ok) takes a lot of nerve. Charlie is wise and mature. Cassie? Not so much or she would see that Charlie is right about waiting.

NormM wrote:Charlie is 35 and she is 26 or 27.

My sister had her two kids when she was 40 and 42.